Marvel Comics were Real Time Comics in the 1960s

Sales soared and the comics were great!

The Thing and the Beatles The official view is that Marvel comics took place in almost real time in the 1960s.

We know this because on 8th November 2010 on his Formspring account, Tom Brevoort stated unequivocally that Franklin is 8 years old and it is 13 years since Fantastic Four number 1. In other words, 5 years passed between late 1961 and early 1968 (real time: 6 1/2 years). However, the art and other evidence suggests that Franklin may be around 6, indicating that 7 of the 13 Marvel years took place between 1961 and 1968.

A close examination of the stories indicates that six full years passed. In other words, until 1968 at least, Marvel comics took place in real time. Here I'll use the Fantastic Four as a detailed example, but you could also chart Spider-Man's progress through High School and reach a similar conclusion. Are you ready? Let's fire up Dr Doom's Time Machine and go back to the very beginning, back to 1961.....

1961

Ten years later (in FF 126) The Thing explicitly states this was 1961:

The events of FF issue 1 are clearly linked to the space race where Americans were terrified that the Russians were beating them into space. The Russians had Sputnik was 1957, both nations had moon probes in 1959, and in April 1961 the Russians had Yuri Gagarin, the first human in orbit. A few weeks later Stan Lee wrote the synopsis to FF1. Stan said in an interview that he originally intended to have the Fantastic Four try to be the first humans on the moon. But there is a delay between writing a comic and the comic going on sale, and he was afraid that the Russians might have already landed on the moon before the comic was on sale, so he changed it to be a rocket "to the stars." This comic was up to the minute and the fans loved it!

1962

Johnny explicitly states it is 1962:

Issue 4 has the return of the Submariner, a 1940s hero. He had his own comic just ten years earlier (I haven't checked the exact date his comic was canceled), so the Fantastic Four had to explain what happened in the mean time. Back then, ten years was a long time! back then, things happened! Back then, nothing stayed still! Back then, comics were exciting! So they explained how the Submariner had lost his memory some time before the nuclear tests of the 1950s (more real time references). A similar thing happened in the Avengers when Captain America returned. This was less than twenty years after WWII, but the real time delay was enough for Stan Lee to invent a "frozen in ice" story to explain the long delay. A similar explanation was used for the return of the original Human Torch in FF annual 4. Back then it was unacceptable for a hero to remain unchanged for twenty years without a serious explanation! These days the heroes have remained unchanged for thirty years and nobody cares any more.

In issue 8 Johnny mentions it is 1962. In issue 9 of the FF starts with the FF becoming bankrupt. This was written in 1962, coinciding with a real-world stock market crisis. Then our heroes visit Hollywood, and on pages 6 and 7 they appear in the same frames as famous celebrities from 1962.

Johnny Storm was 17 in 1962

Back in the 1962 we were even given the characters ages. This is by Stan Lee from an early letters column:

"Mr. Fantastic and Ben Grimm are both in their late thirties, having graduated college when they were very young. Sue Storm is in her twenties, and Johnny is just seventeen. (We can't tell you Sue's EXACT age because, being a female, she'd never talk to us again!)"

Tracing Johnny's age, year by year:

If Johnny Storm was 17 in 1962 then in 1963 he's 17 or 18. We can see the passing of time in his own comic, Strange Tales. In 1963 Johnny has exams and says he resents still having to go to school. In Strange Tales 119, page 2, Reed refers to Johnny's next "summer vacation," indicating that Reed expects him to continue his schooling.

FF 52 Strange Tales 120 Strange Tales 119 FF 44

Soon after this we stop hearing of Johnny's school work. Instead he is seen lazing around the house, dating Dorrie Evans, racing cars, bowling or playing golf. Previously his exam pressures were building up, yet now he has plenty of time. The obvious conclusion is that Johnny graduated from high school but took some time off school. How much time? The comics' internal chronology (see references above to "last year" and "a few months ago") suggest that this was quite some time. Students cannot just take a few months off - it is a year or nothing. Besides, it is very common for a student to take a gap year. So we can conclude, based on the comics, that Johnny Storm took a whole year away from school in 1964, when he was 18 or 19.

This was not yet a big problem. The slippage was only small and could easily be made up in a later story. More importantly, the stories were incredibly good, so we can overlook the fact that they have fewer real-world connections. But the writing was on the wall, the realism was weakening.

1968 was Marvel's great turning point. Click here for details

1963

Johnny explicitly states it is 1963:
Strange Tales 119

FF issue 11 has the FF respond to letters from their readers. They very clearly live in the same world and same time frame. Issue 1 is described as being "a year ago" (FF1 was at the very end of 1961), and issue 6 was "a few months ago."

We also learn that Reed and Ben fought in World War II. And the comic is very specific: Ben was a marine fighter ace who fought over Okinawa and Guadalcanal, and appeared in the newspapers. Reed worked for the underground, for the O.S.S., and he dreamed of his childhood sweetheart, Susan Storm. These people were not timeless icons, they felt like real life people, living in the real world, and that is what made their adventures more exciting than other comics.

Issue 17 has a cameo from president John F. Kennedy, and page 12 has his counterparts in Russia.

1964

FF issue 28 has their first battle with the X-Men. As so often happens in these issues, the FF learn about current events by reading the newspaper, emphasizing both the links with the real world and the fact that everything back then was always changing. Issue 33 begins with the headline "SCENE: F.F. HEADQUARTERS! TIME: NOW!" The story begins with an undersea specimen being sent from the Coast Guard for Reed to study, and Ben looks in an encyclopedia to find what it is. The Hate Monger story includes a reference to an underground tunneling machine, with a note from the editor saying the Russians are really developing such a thing in the real world. Everything acts to tie the FF into the real and familiar world of the readers, which makes the amazing adventures seem even more amazing.

In Strange Tales 127 (December 1964, on sale in September) we see that issue 118 (just nine issues earlier) was "last year." And issue 124 was "a few months ago." Clearly this is happening in real time.

This is confirmed by the text. In previous issues, the Wizard was twice sent to jail, and each time he "had plenty of time to plan" and was able to act like a model prisoner for "long enough" to lull the authorities into complacency. Then he escaped and planned his next campaign against the torch, all within the space of a few issues (102-105, 106-110 then 110-118). If this is not happening in real time there simply isn't enough time for the events to unfold.

Left: in FF 28 (July 1964), Strange Tales 120 (May 1964) was described as "a few months ago." In FF 31 (November 1964), FF 18 (the Super Skrull, September 1963) was described as "last year."

ff 28 ff 32

Note that the characters used to remember previous battles, and each battle was highly significant, because every year was different, everything was changing, most of the events were new. Today it's just "Ho hum, looks like it's time to fight the Hulk for the 267th time. Or maybe it's Dr Doom's turn again. Yawn."

And what else happened in 1964? Oh yes. The Torch and The Thing met The Beatles.

1965

The big event of 1965 is the wedding of Sue and Reed. Here we have real world development: two characters who are in love get engaged and are married! And Stan Lee and Jack Kirby, the writers of the comic in real life, come to the wedding!

The internal chronology continues into the classic era, the period after Reed and Sue's wedding. In FF 44, issue 35 was referred to as "last winter." Issue 44 was dated November 1965 (and on sale a couple of months earlier), and issue 35 issue was dated Feb 1965, and on sale at the end of 1964. Once again we have Marvel Time in complete harmony with Real Time.
FF 42

Issues 44 to 50 (the Inhumans and Galactus) appear to take place over less time than the six months of publication (although it was long enough for Crystal and Johnny to meet and fall in love, and this was real love, not just another Dorrie Evans) Does this mean that Marvel time is taking over and the characters are no longer living in real time? No, because the next two issues take several months, so we again catch up with real time. In FF 50, Johnny starts college with many other new students, so he is clearly following the conventional academic year. Yet by FF 52, just two real world months later, he is studying for a series of exams and looking forward to the vacation. This appears to be a major vacation, as he is able to take his new friend with him on a trip to Africa. And the fact that he brings Wyatt suggests they have spent a long time becoming friends. So it appears that at least one whole semester has passed in those two issues, to balance the previous issues that had fewer gaps.

And what about Johnny's age and schooling? He should be aged 18 or 19 in 1965, and should enroll in college after his gap year. In issue 44, Johnny indicates that he had indeed intended to enroll in college that year, but failed to do so because the Fantastic Four was so busy. Indeed, that year (1965) saw the start of the multi-issue epics that are generally considered to be the high point of the Fantastic Four's long history.

So it appears that Johnny graduated high school in 1963, intended to have 1964 as a gap year, but ended up having two gap years because he was so busy. He is now aged 19 or 20. We often see him driving cars and he is physically an adult.

1966

In issue 59 (dated March 1967, on sale late 1966) we are specifically told that Wyatt drove a Ferrari Dino V-6 Berlinetta and that it is very expensive.

According to the Ferrari web site, this was one of the most influential models ever, and was unveiled at the 1965 Paris motor show. The Paris show takes place every two years, in September. and it takes a little while for orders to be delivered, so it would have started to appear in America in 1966. Indeed, everything points to this being the defining car of 1966 and no other year, firmly fixing this story to the real world.

Other developments:

It's not only Johnny who grows and changes. Reed changed just as much. Four years earlier he was a pipe-smoking respectable tweed-suited university figure. Then, four years later, he's a man of action! (If it looks like he's got younger, that's because stretchy skin doesn't wrinkle!) Ben's personality and appearance have changed dramatically, just compare the careless violence of the first few issues with the teddy bear he became. Sue has developed from air-headed socialite to mother figure. Even the Baxter Building has changed, from an ordinary office block to almost a robot in its own right.

Galactus in 1966

1966 was dominated by Galactus. The Galactus saga has often been imitated and retold, but all the retellings have been forgettable. Perhaps this is because the saga is so clearly rooted in the mid 1960s. Just look at the climax to the Galactus trilogy, in issue 50. The cover makes space for the fact that Johnny Storm begins college. Clearly the passage of time is rather important!

The art screams mid 1960s:

The cover to issue 48 and numerous backgrounds show the classic early 1960s new York skyline. Most pages show classic 1960s hairstyles. Most pages show classic 1960s fashions - the women have push-up bras and the men (bystanders) wear hats. Several panels show 1960s technology, with giant TV cameras, 1960s jet planes, 1960s cars giant two-way radios, and so on. I don't have the expertise to identify specific fashions from specific years, but I bet that a fashion expert could identify the details.

The attitudes are 1960s:

Issue 48, page 14 shows classic gender roles, with Sue worrying about her duty to make dinner for Reed, and Johnny comments on the battle of the sexes. And a silver muscle-bound spaceman riding a surfboard - need I say more? But soon after we see the Black Panther, the first ever (?) black superhero, predating the political group of the same name. This reflected the high profile race issues of the mid 1960s, and would be up to the minute in 1966.

Pop culture of the mid 1966:

All the major elements of the story make most sense in the 1960s. The interest in godlike men and nobility, and clear influence from movies like "The Day the Earth Stood Still" and "The Day the Earth Caught Fire" and issue 48 page 13 directly references a 1960s film maker.

Other 1960s references:

At the ends of issue 50 we learn that Wyatt Wingfoot was brought up in a mission school. Issue 48 includes a photo montage that looks very dated in today's computer age. And so on and so on. This story, like all the others, is saturated in contemporary culture and references. If we ignore the 1960s links then we must ignore the art, the dialog, the premise... nothing is left! If the Galactus story and the other stories have any merit, then some of it must be down to real-time real world links.

It is worth noting that Marvel did not just reflect 1960s culture, it contributed to it! That is what happens when you embrace the times you live in and try to live in the real world. In contrast, modern Marvel stories take place in an imaginary limbo and declining sales reflect their lack of relevance.

1967-1968

The years 1967 to 1968 are dominated by Franklin. In 1967 Sue announces that she is pregnant, and in 1968 the baby is born. This is the beginning of the end for Real Time, though the process is gradual. Time slippage is not obvious until the early 1970s, and does not produce huge problems until the 1980s. It is not until 1991 that the last nail is driven into the coffin of the Marvel Universe as it existed in the 1960s, but that is another story.

Although it is possible to interpret the Fantastic Four as living in real time until 1969/1970 (issue 98, the real world moon landing), it gets harder after issue 52. Another multi-issue epic began in 52, and the events of just a few days (perhaps a couple of months at the most) are stretched over nearly a year. Fans began to notice that time was stretching. They started to complain. So much so that this is acknowledged on the splash page of issue 61:

FF 61

1969

A close reading shows that all the issues up until the 70s (when Sue is pregnant) take place with very few gaps in between. We cannot then have a long "catch up with real time" gap because Sue is then pregnant, and we cannot have a pregnancy lasting two years! So real time becomes hard to believe after the 50s (that is, after 1966). However, the gap between Marvel Time and Real Time is still very small, and the events of these issues take place with such energy that most readers probably did not notice. The last major real time event in the 1960s was in 1969, where the Fantastic Four help Neal Armstrong get safely to the moon. (Issue 98 was dated 1970, but was probably on sale in late 1969). If we do not pay close attention we could still believe that events maybe happened in real time until that point, but after that the problems just mount up. There are occasional Real Time references for the next ten years, but these are outnumbered by the obvious anachronisms.

The same analysis can be done for other titles

The same examination could be made of other titles. For example, in X-Men 54, in 1968, Scott and the X-Men take Alex out for drinks after his graduation. The drinking age in New York State at the time was 21, and Scott is older than Alex. Scott was 17 in 1963, so 22 in 1968. If any less time had passed then his younger brother would be under 21 and unable to drink.

Another example is this footnote in HULK #135 (January 1971) by scripter Roy Thomas:

"Roy's Theory of Relativity: Ever since that infamous day in AVENGERS #9 (1964) when Kang first invaded our century, his rate of time-flow has gone forward at the same speed as ours -- so that, just as seven years have passed for Kang since then, it is now seven years later for us, as well! See you in the letters-pages! -- Rascally"

As Tony of The Wastebasket points out,

"The story specifically notes 1964 as the year the Avengers were formed and the 'present' as being 1971. So it seems that Roy Thomas was operating under the assumption that the Marvel Universe was moving forward in real-time."

The remaining years fit into just five "real" years.

As Tom Brevoort implied, later Marvel years can be compressed into only a few few real years. Whereas early comics would refer to previous issues as "months ago," later stories usually happen without a break. The various attempts to map Marvel Time onto Real Time indicate that everything from the end of real time (1968) to the late 1980s (real time) would fit into around five years. At that point, serious continuity ended. In other words, the Marvel Universe ended, in real time, around 1973, and then Marvel published those stories over the next few years.

1973

The End of Real Time

The final nail in the coffin of Real Time is FF 129 - 133, featuring baby Franklin at roughly 18 months old - old enough to be play outside in the dirt with minimal attention, but probably not walking or talking very much. One of these stories is clearly linked to New Year 1973, when Franklin should really be twice as old as he is portrayed. This is the first clear example of dates not adding up, thus destroying the illusion of reality.

Marvel Time goes downhill from there. By 1984 Franklin is five six years old, and he was still five in 1998. By the year 2000, the older characters' ages seemed to be almost going in reverse. You can track the corresponding decline in sales, as comics no longer feel relevant to real life. There have been occasional good stories since then, but practically no character development. To all intents and purposes, the period of dynamism and change ended in 1973 at the latest.

More evidence for 1973

According to the 1998 Fantastic Four annual, Marvel Time diverged from Real Time in 1973. You can check this on Wikipedia (at least you cold in 2010): just look up "Earth 98." The key event was the death of Gwen Stacey.

It appears that Stan Lee subconsciously thinks of the Fantastic Four as ending circa 1973, around the time that he left direct control of the comics. Read his "Last Fantastic Four Story."it cannot be set in the present, as the characters are wrong. But it cannot be set in the future either: the team (and the Silver Surfer) seem inexperienced, they are short of money, and no recent characters are present. Meanwhile, characters Like Thor, Captain America and Nick Fury are not their current versions. Crucially, Franklin looks younger. A discussion on the comicboards Fantastic Four message board concluded that the story only made sense if set in the early 1970s.

Philosophically, the concept of a "last Fantastic Four" story implies a continuity that moves forward and is never retconned. This was only true in the early days. So it cannot refer to the modern comic called "Fantastic Four" where nothing ever changes.

Economically, the concept of "last Fantastic Four story" only makes sense in the early 1970s. Today it is unthinkable that Marvel would ever cease publication, as long as a handful of copies can be sold. But in the early 1970s Marvel seriously considered that superhero comics would end.

"Comics had always been a cyclical business, and almost everybody in 1971 thought that super heroes must inevitably be on their way out again. That's why there was such a gold rush on to find the next big genre--sword-and-sorcery looked like it might be a contender, and there were a lot of new mystery (watered-down horror comics without much horror), war and western comics being churned out in this period. But the classic Marvel, Stan's Marvel, was still seen as something of a fad (even by Stan himself), and the common wisdom was that everybody was going to be doing something else very soon (possibly in another field entirely.)" -Tom Brevoort

That is how Marvel Universe continuity began. For how it ended, click here.

Maybe one day the Fantastic Four will return to the real world. Maybe one day we will again have characters that develop, stories that are relevant to the present day, and events that have real significance. But until that day we always have the reprints.