Marvel comics were Real Time comics
in the 1960s
Marvel comics operated in Real Time in the 1960s. You can see it in all the comics: Peter Parker grew older, so did the X-Men, the Hulk was constantly changing, Nick Fury often referred to his life in World War Two and was up to the minute with sixties styles. Celebrities and dates and events were employed to show how up to date the comics were.
I'll use the Fantastic Four as a detailed example, because it was the flagship, and the comic that started it all.
1962:
Issue 4 has the return of the Submariner, a 1940s hero. He had his own comic just ten years earlier (I haven't checked the exact date his comic was cancelled), so the Fantastic Four had to explain what happened in the mean time. Back then, ten years was a long time! back then, things happened! Back then, nothing stayed still! Back then, comics were exciting! So they explained how the Submariner had lost his memory some time before the nuclear tests of the 1950s (more real time references). A similar thing happened in the Avengers when Captain America returned. This was less than twenty years after WWII, but the real time delay was enough for Stan Lee to invent a "frozen in ice" story to explain the long delay. A similar explanation was used for the return of the original Human Torch in FF annual 4. Back then it was unacceptable for a hero to remain unchanged for twenty years without a serious explanation! These days the heroes have remained unchanged for thirty years and nobody cares any more.
In issue 8 Johnny mentions it is 1962. In issue 9 of the FF starts with the FF becoming bankrupt. This was written in 1962, coinciding with a real-world stock market crisis. Then our heroes visit Hollywood, and on pages 6 and 7 they appear in the same frames as famous celebrities from 1962.
1961:
The events of FF issue 1 are clearly linked to the space race where Americans were terrified that the Russians were beating them into space. The Russians had Sputnik was 1957, both nations had moon probes in 1959, and in April 1961 the Russians had Yuri Gagarin, the first human in orbit. A few weeks later Stan Lee wrote the synopsis to FF1. Stan said in an interview that he originally intended to have the Fantastic Four try to be the first humans on the moon. But there is a delay between writing a comic and the comic going on sale, and he was afraid that the Russians might have already landed on the moon before the comic was on sale, so he changed it to be a rocket "to the stars." This comic was up to the minute and the fans loved it!
1963:
FF issue 11 has the FF respond to letters from their readers. They very clearly live in the same world and same time frame. They refer to some of their previous adventures. Issue 1 is describes as being "a year ago" and issue 6 was "a few months ago." This is confirms by the context: numerous events happen in between each issue, and by issue 11 the FF are acting like they are a very old and experienced team. we also learn that Reed and Ben fought in World War II. This was not just a generic war reference, specific details were given. Ben was a marine fighter ace who fought over Okinawa and Guadalcanal, and appeared in the newspapers. Reed worked for the underground, for the O.S.S., and he dreamed of his childhood sweetheart, Susan Storm. These people were not timeless icons, they felt like real life people, living in the real world, and that is what made their adventures more exciting than other comics.
Issue 12 (the Wrecker and the Hulk) is a classic "communist subversives among us" story, and 13 (the Red Ghost) is another anti-Communist story. In issue 17, The Thing is seen reading a recent Marvel comic, page 11 has a cameo from president John F. Kennedy, and page 12 has his counterparts in Russia.
Meanwhile, Johnny Storm should be aged either 17 or 18. We can check the passing of time by looking at Johnny's age and whether he goes to school.
In 1963 he has exams and says he resents still having to go to school. In Strange Tales 119, page 2, Reed refers to Johnny's next "summer vacation," indicating that Reed expects him to continue his schooling. But soon after that we stop hearing of Johnny's school work. Instead he is seen lazing around the house, dating Dorrie Evans, racing cars, bowling or playing golf. Previously his exam pressures were building up, yet now he has plenty of time.
The obvious conclusion is that Johnny graduated from high school but took some time off school. How much time? The comics' internal chronology (see references above to "last year" and "a few months ago") suggest that this was quite some time. Students cannot just take a few months off - it is a year or nothing. Besides, it is very common for a student to take a gap year. So we can conclude, based on the comics, that Johnny Storm took a whole year away from school in 1964, when he was 18 or 19.
1964:
FF issue 28 has the first battle with the X-Men. As so often happens in these issues, the FF learn about current events by reading the newspaper, emphasizing both the links with the real world and the fact that everything back then was always changing. Issue 33 begins with the headline "SCENE: F.F. HEADQUARTERS! TIME: NOW!" The story begins with an undersea specimen being sent from the Coast Guard for Reed to study, and Ben looks in an encyclopedia to find what it is. The Hate Monger story includes a reference to an underground tunnelling machine, with a note from the editor saying the Russians are really developing such a thing in the real world. Everything acts to tie the FF into the real and familiar world of the readers, which makes the amazing adventures seem even more amazing.
Above: Strange Tales 127 (December 1964, on sale in September). We see that issue 118 (just nine issues earlier) was "last year." And issue 124 was "a few months ago." Clearly this is happening in real time. This is confirmed by the text. In previous issues, the Wizard was twice sent to jail, and each time he "had plenty of time to plan" and was able to act like a model prisoner for "long enough" to lull the authorities into complacency. Then he escaped and planned his next campaign against the torch, all within the space of a few issues (102-105, 106-110 then 110-118). If this is not happening in real time there simply isn't enough time for the events to unfold.
Left: in FF 28 (July 1964), Strange Tales 120 (May 1964) was described as "a few months ago." In FF 31 (November 1964), FF 18 (the Super Skrull, September 1963) was described as "last year." Note that the characters used to remember previous battles, and each battle was highly significant, because every year was different, everything was changing, most of the events were new. Today it's just "Ho hum, looks like it's time to fight the Hulk for the 267th time. Or maybe it's Dr Doom's turn again. Yawn."
And what else happened in 1964? Oh yes. The Torch and The Thing met The Beatles.
1965:
The big event of 1965 is the wedding of Sue and Reed. Here we have real world development: two characters who are in love get engaged and are married! And Stan Lee and Jack Kirby, the writers of the comic in real life, come to the wedding!
The internal chronology continues into the classic era, the period after Reed and Sue's wedding. In FF 44, issue 35 was referred to as "last winter." Issue 44 was dated November 1965 (and on sale a couple of months earlier), and issue 35 issue was dated Feb 1965, and on sale at the end of 1964. Once again we have Marvel Time in complete harmony with Real Time.
Issues 44 to 50 (the Inhumans and Galactus) appear to take place over less time than the six months of publication (although it was long enough for Crystal and Johnny to meet and fall in love, and this was real love, not just another Dorrie Evans) Does this mean that Marvel time is taking over and the characters are no longer living in real time? No, because the next two issues take several months, so we again catch up with real time. In FF 50, Johnny starts college with many other new students, so he is clearly following the conventional academic year. Yet by FF 52, just two real world months later, he is studying for a series of exams and looking forward to the vacation. This appears to be a major vacation, as he is able to take his new friend with him on a trip to Africa. And the fact that he brings Wyatt suggests they have spent a long time becoming friends. So it appears that at least one whole semester has passed in those two issues, to balance the previous issues that had fewer gaps.
And what about Johnny's age and schooling? He should be aged 18 or 19 in 1965, and should enrol in college after his gap year. In issue 44, Johnny indicates that he had indeed intended to enroll in college that year, but failed to do so because the Fantastic Four was so busy. Indeed, that year (1965) saw the start of the multi-issue epics that are generally considered to be the high point of the Fantastic Four's long history.
So it appears that Johnny graduated high school in 1963, intended to have 1964 as a gap year, but ended up having two gap years because he was so busy. He is now aged 19 or 20. We often see him driving cars and he is physically an adult.
1966:
In issue 59 (dated March 1967, on sale late 1966) we are specifically told that Wyatt drove a Ferrari Dino V-6 Berlinetta and that it is very expensive. According to the Ferrari web site, this was one of the most influential models ever, and was unveiled at the 1965 Paris motor show. The Paris show takes place every two years, in September. and it takes a little while for orders to be delivered, so it would have started to appear in America in 1966. Indeed, everything points to this being the defining car of 1966 and no other year, firmly fixing this story to the real world.
The other stories of 1966 were dominated by Galactus. The Galactus saga has often been imitated and retold, but all the retellings have been forgettable. Perhaps this is because the saga is so clearly rooted in the mid 1960s.
Back in the golden age, the comics were not afraid to give the characters' ages. Sean Kleefeld pointed out that, in one of the letter columns in 1962, Stan Lee himself stated: "Mr. Fantastic and Ben Grimm are both in their late thirties, having graduated college when they were very young. Sue Storm is in her twenties, and Johnny is just seventeen. (We can't tell you Sue's EXACT age because, being a female, she'd never talk to us again!)"
1967-1968:
The years 1967 to 1968 are dominated by Franklin. In 1967 Sue announces that she is pregnant, and in 1968 the baby is born. This is the beginning of the end for Real Time, though the process is gradual. Time slippage is not obvious until the early 1970s, and does not produce huge problems until the 1980s. It is not until 1993 that the last nail is driven into the coffin of the Marvel Universe as it existed in the 1960s, but that is another story.
Although it is possible to interpret the Fantastic Four as living in real time until 1969/1970 (issue 98, the real world moon landing), it gets harder after issue 52. Another multi-issue epic began in 52, and the events of just a few days (perhaps a couple of months at the most) are stretched over nearly a year. Fans began to notice that time was stretching. They started to complain. So much so that this is acknowledged on the splash page of issue 61:
"MAYBE OUR STORIES ARE A BIT STRETCHED OUT, AS SOME MAVERICK MARVEL MALCONTENTS HAVE CLAIMED... BUT, YOU'VE GOTTA ADMIT THEY COME ON WITH A BANG, RIGHT TIGER?"
This was yet a big problem. The slippage was only small and could easily be made up in a later story. More importantly, the stories were incredibly good, so we can overlook the fact that they have fewer real-world connections. But the writing was on the wall, the connection with the readers was weakening.
1969:
A close reading shows that all the issues up until the 70s (when Sue is pregnant) take place with very few gaps in between. We cannot then have a long "catch up with real time" gap because Sue is then pregnant, and we cannot have a pregnancy lasting two years! So real time becomes hard to believe after the 50s (that is, after 1966). However, the gap between Marvel Time and Real Time is still very small, and the events of these issues take place with such energy that most readers probably did not notice. The last major real time event in the 1960s was in 1969, where the Fantastic Four help Neal Armstrong get safely to the moon. (Issue 98 was dated 1970, but was probably on sale in late 1969). If we do not pay close attention we could still believe that events maybe happened in real time until that point, but after that the problems just mount up. There are occasional Real Time references for the next ten years, but these are outnumbered by the obvious anachronisms.
1973: The End of Real Time
The final nail in the coffin of Real Time is FF 129 - 133, featuring baby Franklin at roughly 18 months old - old enough to be play outside in the dirt with minimal attention, but probably not walking or talking very much. One of these stories is clearly linked to New Year 1973, when Franklin should really be twice as old as he is portrayed. This is the first clear example of dates not adding up, thus destroying the illusion of reality.
Marvel Time goes downhill from there. By 1984 Franklin is five six years old, and he was stil five in 1998. By the year 2000, the older characters' ages seemed to be almost going in reverse..
You can track the corresponding decline in sales, as comics no longer feel relevant to real life.
There have been occasional good stories since then, but practically no character development. To all intents and purposes, the period of dynamism and change ended in 1973 at the latest.
This conclusion is based on the Fantastic Four, but similar results could be obtained by looking at the other early stories.
More about 1973
According to the 1998 Fantastic Four annual, Real Time diverged from Real Time in 1973. You can check this on Wikipedia: just look up "Earth 98." The key event was the death of Gwen Stacey. But that's not the only evidence. There's more!
Stan Lee's "The Last Fantastic Four Story"
Stan Lee's recent comic, "the Last Fantastic Four Story" and it seems to be set in 1973, or thereabouts. Stan (along with Jack Kirby) created the Fantastic Four. He's Stan Lee for goodness sake! He wrote the first Fantastic Four story and now he's written the last one. He's in his mid 80s now, so he's unlikely to write any more. So this story matters!
But fans were confused: it's called "the last Fantastic Four" story but it does not look like the present day. I suggested (on the comicboards FF message board) that this was because the story was set in the future. A more experienced fan replied with this insight:
"The thing is, it's not really set in the future either. The story reads more like something that happened several years ago. None of the characters are noticeably older. Ben: we can't really tell his age. Reed looks as old as he is in current continuity, as do Sue and Johnny. Franklin looks even younger than he's been portrayed in recent years (he looked to be 5 years old again, riding on Johnny's shoulders in one panel). If this is the future, then it's some future that simply no longer makes sense (and wouldn't make since at any time after the early 70s)."
And he added:
"Plus, we've got these heroes (pretty much only Ben) bellyaching about getting paid and they're apparently living pauper lifestyles because they can't afford anything else. Yeah? Since when? Typically the FF have been very well off. Heck, in current continuity, Ben's a multimillionaire or more."
Another problem was that they acted as if they were inexperienced.
"That's not realistic, especially if this is supposed to be a story about their last adventure. If they've been having these adventures for years, then they should realistically know what the heck is going on. Even the Surfer, who's supposed to be ancient, is acting rather dumb."
And that got me thinking. If it was really set in the early 1970s, that would explain the inexperience. Sure, the heroes had twelve years' experience by then, but at that time most things were still new to them, and they could be forgiven momentary lapses. It would also explain the money problems. The serious wealth did not arrive until later. At that time it was still possible to worry about bills on a bad month.
The surfer would have only been on earth for eight years or less, and in his early stories he does indeed come across as naive. Read his solo series or his appearances in the Fantastic Four during this period.
More evidence for 1973
The word "last" implies that it MUST be set in the early 1970s or before. Why? Because "last" implies there will be no more stories. It was possible to contemplate a "last" story back then.
"Comics had always been a cyclical business, and almost everybody in 1971 thought that super heroes must inevitably be on their way out again. That's why there was such a gold rush on to find the next big genre--sword-and-sorcery looked like it might be a contender, and there were a lot of new mystery (watered-down horror comics without much horror), war and western comics being churned out in this period. But the classic Marvel, Stan's Marvel, was still seen as something of a fad (even by Stan himself), and the common wisdom was that everybody was going to be doing something else very soon (possibly in another field entirely.)" - Tom Brevoort
Everyone treats the Fantastic Four as two different sets of stories: "Stan and Jack," and "everything else." The first set was fast moving, constantly changing, and created all the best stuff. The second group is a set of stories designed to continue the brands forever.
By the early 1970s Marvel began to realize that these characters would last forever. Today is is unthinkable that these comics would ever finish. So the whole concept of a "Last story" only made sense in the 1960s and early 1970s when everything was changing and nobody knew what the future would bring. Y'know, back when comics were new and exciting.
Anachronisms in 'The Last Fantastic Four Story' ?
"The Last Fantastic Four Story" includes Storm married to the Black Panther, and a reference to Reed and Sue' kids (plural). These seem to be added by Marvel editors to give the impression of modern details, but the weight of the evidence still points to the early 1970s. I made that point on the message board, and another fan replied:
"I think you're right. The book kind of reads like the Marvel Universe as Stan remembers it after 40 years. Clearly there's no effort to tie it into current continuity, since Cap is alive and kicking and Thor and the Vision appear to be the originals. And doesn't Nick Fury show up at the UN ceremony in the background?"
Current continuity is of course an oxymoron: Marvel Time is constantly destroying its own past, and spawning parallel universes, so there is no current continuity. Or at least, nothing that has any long term significance. But that still leaves the problem of why "The Last Fantastic Four Story" contains some details that were not present in comics published in 1973. This problem is solved when we remember that Marvel Time began to creep in as early as 1967. Let me explain how.
How could a modern story be set in 1973?
Or, what if Marvel Time is anchored in 1961, not 2008?
Marvel Time says that current Marvel stories take place now, and all precious stories (since Fantastic Four 1) take place in the last ten years or so. So The actual year is constantly sliding. The Fatnastic Four, for example, were first published in 1961. In the 1990s, their origin was assumed to have been in the early 1980s. Now it is 2008, their origin is assumed to have been in the 1990s.
But you see the problem? Marvel Time says current stories take place "now." but that claim is immediately denied, as the times they are always a-changing. In Marvel Time, stories never take place at any time, since no times are ever fixed.
A simpler approach is to anchor the origin stories in the 1960s, when they were actually written. 'Tony' in his blog 'The Wastebasket' discusses this at length, and suggests where modern stories would fit in a fixed real world time frame:
"Comics publishers, and most fans, start the clock in the present day and work backwards. (The Fantastic Four formed 12 years ago, they’d say, and would then change the details in the original story to update it to the proper era.) I, on the other hand, would rather anchor the stories at the other end – in 1961 – and let it run at its own pace and see what happens when fictional continuity and historical fact collide. ... As a result of compressing the sliding time scale, stories published in the early 1970s fall into my timeline in the mid-sixties, and stories published in the mid 1980s end up being set in the mid 1970s. Although I haven’t gotten to the other end, I estimate that the last canonical stories from 1990-1992 would be set sometime around 1977 or 1978, possibly later. "
How does that work exactly? New readers read a comic and it refers to "George W. Bush, 2008." But older reader know that it REALLY refers to "Richard Nixon, 1973" or thereabouts. So new readers are haopy, because stories seem up to date. And older readers are happy because the stories matter: they have consequences. And those consequences can be traced by reference to the real internal continuity.
Tony's "current" date of 1977 or 1978 assumes that all stories up to 1992 are canonical. But it is clear that many of the later stories are anything but, so it is quite easy to ignore them and compress the time scale even further. I suggest that if we only look at the stories that fans agree are important, they can all comfortably fit into two periods: 1961-1967 (everything published between those dates, when everything was real time) and 1967-1973 (stories published between 1967-1991, from the first signs of Marvel Time to the death of the Marvel Universe). Many of the 1967-1991 stories are now forgotten or retconned. The rest, the stories that actually matter, can easily fit into six years of real time.
Just stop a moment and imagine what this would be like: a complete canon of stories, all the classics and the best of the rest, all fitting into twelve glorious years. What a collection that would be! Peope would read and reread those stories for generations to come. They would become the mythology of a thousand years' hence!
The 1961-1973 universe and the real time universe
In summary:
1) Real change was only possible up to 1973.
2) Real Time Earth-98 diverged from Marvel Time Earth 616 in 1973.
3) Stan Lee left day to day comics the previous year (Jack Kirby had left a little earlier).
4) The Last Fantastic Four story appears to take place in 1973.
5) If Marvel Time is anchored in 1961 then it the earliest time it can end is about 1973.
6) Modern stories (with the exception of the New X-Men) are all based on pre-1973 characters and plots.
Everything leads to the conclusion that the real Fantastic Four, the one that grew and evolved and had real danger, ended in 1973. Since then we have had reprints, imaginary stories, "re-imaginings" and, we must conclude, modernized versions of untold stories from the past.
Maybe one day the Fantastic Four will return from retirement. Maybe one day we will again have characters that develop, stories that are relevant to the present day, and events that have real significance. But until that day we always have the reprints.
The art screams mid 1960s:
The cover to issue 48 and numerous backgrounds show the classic early 1960s new York skyline. Most pages show classic 1960s hairstyles. Most pages show classic 1960s fashions - the women have push-up bras and the men (bystanders) wear hats. Several panels show 1960s technology, with giant TV cameras, 1960s jet planes, 1960s cars giant two-way radios, and so on. I don't have the expertise to identify specific fashions from specific years, but I bet that a fashion expert could identify the details.
The attitudes are 1960s:
Issue 48, page 14 shows classic gender roles, with Sue worrying about her duty to make dinner for Reed, and Johnny comments on the battle of the sexes. And a silver muscle-bound spaceman riding a surfboard - need I say more? But soon after we see the Black Panther, the first ever (?) black superhero, predating the political group of the same name. This reflected the high profile race issues of the mid 1960s, and would be up to the minute in 1966.
Pop culture of the mid 1966:
All the major elements of the story make most sense in the 1960s. The interest in godlike men and nobility, and clear influence from movies like "The Day the Earth Stood Still" and "The Day the Earth Caught Fire" and issue 48 page 13 directly references a 1960s film maker.
Other 1960s references:
At the ends of issue 50 we learn that Wyatt Wingfoot was brought up in a mission school. Issue 48 includes a photo montage that looks very dated in today's computer age. And so on and so on.
In summary, this story, like all the others, is saturated in contemporary culture and references. If we ignore the 1960s links then we must ignore the art, the dialog, the premise... nothing is left! If the Galactus story and the other stories have any merit, then some of it must be down to real-time real world links.
It is worth noting that Marvel did not just reflect 1960s culture, it contributed to it! That is what happens when you embrace the times you live in and try to live in the real world. In contrast, modern Marvel stories take place in an imaginary limbo and declining sales reflect their lack of relevance.
As for Johnny Storm, after defeating Galactus, Johnny finally enrolls in college as planned. It appears that he did not really want to go back to school - he never enjoyed studying at high school, and would much rather be a full time superhero. But enrolling helped him to forget about Crystal, his girlfriend who recently had to leave. Johnny is now aged 20 or 21, and the art and his attitudes reflect this.
Other developments:
It should be noted that during these years the Fantastic Four undergo tremendous character development. I have already mentioned Johnny growing up. Reed changes just as much. Four years earlier he was a pipe-smoking respectable tweed-suited university figure. Then, forced by events, he develops into an earnest but inexperienced action team leader, with a team that is always fighting. He ends up more relaxed and comfortable, with a united and highly efficient family team. It could be argued that his face appears to get younger over the first five issues or so, then settles down and possibly ages thereafter. The early changes are easily be explained by his new elastic power. Wrinkles? Not any more!
Ben's rocky hide makes it unlikely that he will age conventionally (a fact confirmed by the 1998 annual) but through the 1960s we can see tremendous character development, from angry and violent misfit , through comic figure, to tragic figure, then finally he comes to terms with being the experienced orange teddy bear of the group. In contrast, future years showed absolutely no character development, and The Thing just regressed to one or other of the previous stages depending on the writer. (Though it could be argued that Byrne added a final stage, Old Experienced Thing.)
Sue shows a real development from air-headed socialite, to older sister, 1960s ideal wife, to mother. This progression continued into the early 1970s with the separation from Reed, but since then her character has not developed, except for a brief period under Byrne with the Malice persona. More recently she has de-aged under some artists, apparently regressing to her twenties, judging by some of the art.
The Baxter Building is not a living character, but its development clearly shows the passing of time. In 1962 it is still simply an office block. Over the years more and more technology is added, until by 1966 it is almost the high tech wonder we see today. Major parts are added in the form of the negative zone portal, then in 1968 (with new baby in tow) Reed and Sue plan to move out to a regular house to raise their son. The development is clear. And there has been no development since, except for a specially designed office block under Byrne, and a move to a pier then back to the Baxter Building a few years later.