The purpose of Marvel Time: prevent change
The whole reason for Marvel Time is to allow Marvel to publish stories about the same characters forever. In other words, Marvel Time exists in order to prevent change. Change is replaced by "the illusion of change."
This way, the story goes, each generation can enjoy the characters as if they were new. Which sounds good. But it leads to a number of problems.
Unfortunately, change is essential to any good story. If you only have the illusion of change then you only have the illusion of a good story. Everntually people notice.
1. Marvel Time destroys trust
Marvel Time bans real change, yet publishers often promise changes. The promises turn out to be false, and trust is reduced. Here are two recent examples of lost trust, courtesy of Newsarama.
The solicit:
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #545
“ONE MORE DAY” PART 4
after this, nothing will be the same for Peter Parker!
The stakes have never been higher.
A fan comments:
"How many f***ing times have we heard "Brace yourself, Spidey fans, after this, nothing will be the same for Peter Parker", in the past 5 years?! Seriously!! Enough!!"
Another example, a quote from Joe Quesada, editor in chief:
NRAMA: Now let’s get to probably the subject of the week - the FF. First of all, can you tell us about the just-solicited Death in the Family one-shot, promising the death of Sue Richards? It reads, and we quote, “Not a dream, not a hoax”...So this is truly “in continuity” and she really buys it?
JQ - Karl Kesel has created one of the best told in one FF stories in a very long time, and yes, unfortunately, there will be a death in the FF family and it is all in continuity. But here’s some Joe Fridays breaking news that the solicits don’t tell ya, and remember, you heard it here first: two of the FF die, not just one. Gone, goodbye, nevermore.
Comment on what actually happened:
S: "Sue Richards from our reality died, and then Johnny saved her, and it created a parallel universe. So, while they died, it didn't matter."
So Marvel said there would be change. Then there was no change. Result: we don't trust Marvel.
2. Marvel Time is fundamentally boring
Marvel Time SLOWS DOWN STORIES. Ten years (their time) takes fifty years (real time).
As time goes on it SLOWS DOWN EVEN MORE because heroes are not allowed to age past thirty. They are not allowed to change from how they appear on movies and lunch boxes. Everything slooooooooows down. Are you bored yet? These days you can stop reading comics for twenty years and come back and nothing has changed. That's what I did (actually 18 years, 1988-2004), and that's why I made this web site.
Compare this with the early days of Marvel where everything changed so quickly, in real time. Every month saw major, lasting, permanent changes that we're still talking about forty years later. It was exciting!
3. "Marvel Time" is a contradiction in terms.
Marvel is supposed to be "the house of ideas". You're supposed to Marvel at it. To marvel means to be amazed, surprised, impressed. You don't marvel at something that's utterly predictable and fundamentally dishonest (pretending to change when it does not), except in a cynical way.
Marvel Time is supposed to both slow down change and stop it at the same time. but you can't have both. If Spider-Man grows old slowly, he still grows old. If you stop or reverse the aging then time no longer applies. It becomes a mess, a farce, a big lie.
4. Marvel Time has never been made to work
Different Marvel editors have stated that everything in Marvel Time takes place in 7, 10, or 13 years. Paul Bourcier has shown that this is impossible. One we admit that it takes 22 years, why not just accept 44 years and be done with it?
Marvel Time only works if we don't pay attention. But if we don't pay attention then why bother?
5. Marvel Time cannot keep people young
Marvel Time fails in its primary purpose, to keep the heroes young so as to appeal to young readers. The heroes do not stay young, they just age slowly. They tend to slow down and stop at around thirty, but that is twice the age of young readers. If you are aged 15 then you don't have a lot in common with a 30 year old.
Worse, as everyone comes to be about thirty and stops, then the potential for major stories reduces. How many times can Spiderman graduate from college? How many times can he get married then divorce then pair up again? So we not only have older heroes, we have heroes who don't change or develop. Booo-ring.
6. Marvel Time destroys the status quo
Marvel Time is supposed to preserve the status quo, but it fails. Marvel Time freezes the outward signs, such as the age, the costume, the powers. But in doing so destroys the dynamic nature of a hero.
Imagine a Marvel Time James Bond for example. Marvel Time would say "we must preserve a young Sean Connery. And Goldfinger must come back again and again." But that would destroy his real status quo: excitement. Connery and Brosnan were highly successful yet were twice the age he is "supposed" to be in the books. Then came Daniel Craig, a great success because he threw away the outer signs, the cold war and Martinis shaken or stirred. He did this in order to preserve the real status quo: action!
In general, the status quo for any hero is danger. But Marvel Time removes this by ensuring that the hero will never die, and actions will never have long term consequences.
The status quo for science fiction characters is the unknown. But Marvel Time insists that characters return to old familiar situations again and again.
For the Fantastic Four (my favorite heroes) the status quo was to push the boundaries, to explore new territory in every way. They were the first heroes to have public identities, the first to get married and have a child, the first to grow up, the first to explore cosmic themes. That is what defined them. Then Marvel Time began, and they stopped doing anything new. Marvel Time destroyed their status quo and make them unrecognizable to the fans who drifted away, longing for the old Fantastic Four.
7. Marvel Time destroys characterization
Plok, in his blog, points out how Marvel Time can destroy the essential core of the characters. Here are some examples.
Captain America is a hero of World War II, frozen in ice and thawed out recently. When he first appeared in 1962, World War II was recent a memory. His character was "great hero who lives!" But as time passes he becomes like Buck Rogers, frozen in one time and thawed out in a completely different time. His character becomes "historical figure comes to terms with the future." A completely different character.
Ben Grimm's core character was about being trapped in a body he hated. Over the years he has occasionally been transformed back into human form, but only very occasionally. However, Marvel Time compresses all these changes, so The Thing becomes human every few months. This changes his essential character - becoming human is normal and common for him.
Spiderman's core character is about having problems. His best known problem is when his girlfriend Gwen Stacey died. At the time he mourned for her for at least two years. But now those two years have been compressed into a few months. In Marvel Time, all of Spidey's major problems are solved or forgotten in a couple of months. So it becomes absurd to worry about them. His whole character becomes a farce.
Mr Fantastic was defined as an introvert scientist who is also a heroic leader of men. Those contradictions - how did it happen? The early stories explained: it was because of the draft. Introvert Reed Richards was forced into the army, and that's where he became a hero. That's why he was then able to lead the Fantastic Four. In America, the draft means either WWII or Vietnam at the latest, which fixes the possible dates at which Mr Fantastic's career could begin. But the new Reed Richards was never drafted. New writers realize that an introvert scientist would not be a heroic and inspirational leader, he would not be a rounded human being. In stories like the Illuminati he was presented as a jerk: one prominent writer called him "an asshole". The real Mr Fantastic has been destroyed by Marvel Time.
8. Marvel Time destroys plot
How many times has the Marvel Universe been invaded by aliens? Marvel Time compresses time so an alien invasion happens every couple of months. No big deal. The average person in the street would pay no attention. It ceases to be of any interest.
How many times has a major character died then later come back to life? Marvel Time compresses time so major deaths happen every few months, and are reversed a few months later.
Great crises, deaths, all the major plot devices mean nothing with Marvel Time. They become just tedious business as usual with no real effect on anybody.
9. Marvel Time makes continuity more complicated.
With real time, continuity is simple. Events have natural and expected consequences. Events don't happen twice. Everything fits together into a big picture that makes sense. In the real world, nobody gets the 1980s mixed up with the 1960s. Nobody gets WWII mixed up with the Gulf War!
But Marvel Time creates confusion because similar events happen many times, and there are no milestones, no timeline that makes sense.
As a result, new writers tend to ignore a character's history, except for the first few years and the most recent stories. As a result modern stories often contradict older stories and characterization and nmotivation changes constantly. Result: it's an even bigger mess.
10. Marvel Time destroys stories
But none of this matters compared with Marvel Time's greatest crime: Marvel Time destroys stories. The whole point of a story is "what happens next?" With Marvel Time, the answer is "nothing" because we always return to the same state. The whole point of a great novel is that the hero changes through the course of the book. Marvel Time destroys that possibility.
Of course, plenty of things appear to happen in a comic book, or across a story arc, or even across two or three years. But it is only "the illusion of change." It is an illusion. A lie. Gradually readers realise this and drift away.
11. Marvel Time destroyed the Marvel Universe
The floating time scale means that details from older stories are changed every few years to bring them up to date. But the old stories are so closely tied to the 1960s that changing them destroys them. This topic is discussed on its own page.
12. Marvel Time confuses new readers
Younger heroes age but older ones don't, so we have a huge number of similar heroes all trying to occupy the same niche. Some age faster than others. Writers, unable to wait until a character grows up, create alternative future versions (endless variants on Days of Futures Past, Valeria, old Teenage Franklin, etc). The main titles are not allowed to develop, so the only choice for Marvel is to publish alternative imaginings of the old Real Time stories, with Regular, Ultimate, Marvel Adventure, and many other parallel versions.
I took a break from comics between 1986 and 2004. When I came back I wanted to read the Fantastic Four and find out what I'd missed. But I discovered there were multiple versions of the FF, each contradicting the other: Ultimate FF, Heroes Reborn FF, FF 2099, Marvel Adventures FF, it was too confusing! I was too stubborn to give up, and I slowly pieced together the mess, but it is clear that Marvel is doing everything in its power to confuse new readers.
13. Marvel Time destroys brands
The driving force behind Marvel Time is to preserve Marvel brand names for merchandising purposes. It appears to extend the life of each brand, but it is entirely unnecessary. If Spiderman grew up and changed you could still print stories about his youth, just as DC publish "Superboy" comics alongside "Superman" comics. There is no need to slow down time for this.
However, Marvel Time destroys brands by weakening the quality of the source material, the comic. It also prevents new brands from being created. Historically, the core brands were created in Real Time comics, in the 1960s, or during the X-Men's real time period. When Marvel Time steps in the creativity stops and the source material dries up.
"Marvel Time" is the sliding timescale that allows superheroes to stay young. Every Marvel comic story since 1961 is supposed to take place in the last ten years or so.
Marvel Time, year by year
This is how Marvel Time is supposed to work: slowing down time, not stopping it:
YEAR 1: 1961-1962 The FF appear; Peter Parker becomes Spider-Man.
YEAR 2: 1963-1964 Peter Parker’s Junior year of high school. Most major heroes appear.
YEAR 3: 1965-1966 FF wedding; Peter Parker graduates h.s., starts college
YEAR 4: 1967-1969 Franklin Richards born
YEAR 5: 1970-1972 The Defenders begin; Luke Cage appears.
YEAR 6: 1973-1975 Death of Gwen Stacy. First clone saga
YEAR 7: 1976-1978 Pete graduates college (late, due to no phy.ed credits- Oct. 78)
YEAR 8: 1979-1983 Peter Parker’s one year of grad school
YEAR 9: 1984-1987 Peter Parker/ Mary Jane Watson wedding
YEAR 10: 1988-1991 Parker’s life gets Venom-ous; Kraven’s Last Hunt.
YEAR 11: 1992-1996 Second clone saga. Onslaught.
YEAR 12: 1997-2001 Genosha destroyed.
YEAR 13: 2002-2006 Avengers Disassembled, House of M, Civil War. A bad year.
YEAR 14: 2007- End of Civil War
This is the simplest timeline I have found, and my personal favorite. It was compiled by Troy D. Smith, while working on his history Ph.D. It was originally posted at WizardUniverse.com; and is used by kind permission of the author. He notes:
"I believe that time "passed" much more quickly in the early years of Marvel, and as (real) time marches on, Marvel time gets slower and slower... one could explain this by noting that nothing much was happening the first few years (in comparison to now.) There were at most 20 superheroes and maybe a hundred supervillains... it's quite likely that Spider-Man could've gone for weeks at a time in Year Two or so without running into noteworthy supervillains, not that likely now when there are thousands of them, so at that time there was less to "report". Thus, comic time was closer to real time."
A reader noted the large number of Christmases in the comics. Troy replied:
"Yeah, it's impossible to get anything that works right, as they jumble stuff around to fit their editorial needs (though how they can claim Cap has only been thawed 5 years when Spidey met him in high school, and is now AT LEAST a couple years past grad school...) And Christmases would be the elephant in the room. I suppose these mental exercises are mostly for my own satisfaction; you can't suspend disbelief unless there are certain rules, even if they are fictionalized rules, that are somewhat consistent."
A more detailed Marvel Time chronology
Troy had to cut a lot of corners to create a meaningful chronology. Christmases, for example. Paul Bourcier tried to make a Marvel Time chronology that was more complete, more accurate, even if it meant adding in a few more years. He began with the Avengers, and his chronology is very long and detailed, so here's just a flavor of the first few years. Bourcier has not placed real world dates by his time line, but you can look up when the comics were published if you wish.
Year 1: includes Avengers issue 1 in September of Marvel Year 1
Year 2: includes Avengers issue 26 in September of Marvel Year 2
Year 3: Avengers 58 in September
Year 4: Avengers 114 in September
Year 5: Avengers 119 in October: this year is actually SHORTER than a real year.
Year 6: Avengers 137 in March: a gap of half a Marvel year between books.
Year 7: Avengers 150 in November of Marvel Year 7.
Year 8: Avengers 181 in September
Year 9: Avengers 212 in November
Year 10: Avengers 228 in September.
And so on. Bourcier’s painstaking approach requires more and more Marvel Years to be added since the 1980s. The latest version of his chronology can be seen at the Marvel Chronology Project, and if I interpret it correctly, it is currently at year 22!
Franklin Richards, poster child for Marvel Time
The easiest way to understand Marvel Time is to look at Franklin Richards. He was born in 1967, and was five years old by 1984. And still five years old in 1998.
Marvel Time
what it is, and why it cannot work
Manga sells better because it has no Marvel Time
Marvel Time equals stagnation. It bans change and avoids risk. But only risk and change can create exciting new ideas. This is from "An Introduction to Manga" (with emphasis added)
"Manga stay fresh and vibrant because they have to keep on finding new authors and winning over readers. Unlike in America, where Spider-Man or Superman are still wearing their underpants outside their trousers after forty, or sixty, years, in Japan not every successful series has to last forever. Manga engage you because they chart the lives and growth of characters and do actually come to a conclusion. It may take thousands of pages, but you can see genuine change going on, not just the 'illusion of change' found in most superhero soap operas, where even death is temporary in order to protect and preserve valuable properties. Manga stories can really end, because that way new stories can begin."
The best selling Marvel comics ignore Marvel Time.
Marvel was Real Time in its boom period, the 1960s. The long term decline in sales began in 1968, when the first hints of Marvel Time became apparent - that is, when fans started to complain about stretched out stories.
The Claremont/Byrne X-Men and other hot comics are effectively Real Time.
Look at the stories that attract the most people: the movies, the cartoons, the Essentials collections, and the Ultimates series. What do they have in common? They are from the sixties or recent retellings, so they ignore Marvel Time. (As the Ultimates settle down into their own routine they gain their own version of Marvel Time, and sales decline.)
Marvel Time is not good for sales.
The real solution: two Marvel Universes
Merchandising demands that there are characters who do not change. But good story telling demands that actions have consequences, and that means characters DO change.
So Marvel needs two universes. One version does not change. It has come to some final, ultimate form and stopped. Hey, that's a good name, you could call it the "ultimate" universe, fill it with young versions of the heroes, and start the numbering again at issue 1 every few years.
Meanwhile, if you want your old stories to count for anything then you need the characters in those books to remember them. "Hey, Gwen Stacey died, didn't she. Hey, I really was married, wasn't I. Those were good times! Keep buying the book and we'll see what happens next!"
Won't the old universe cause all kinds of problems? Actually, not. But it will solve quite a few. Objections are discussed in more detail here.
